GABE GOTAY
Hello everyone, and welcome to Promo Perspectives, the podcast presented by SAGE, dedicated to giving promotional products suppliers and distributors tips, tricks, and insights to help grow their businesses. SAGE is not alone in our quest to help the industry grow. We’ve been partnered with PPAI for 14 years through the Power of Two strategic alliance to provide one comprehensive association and business management solution for the industry.
Today, I’m joined by two special guests from PPAI, both of whom have been guests on the show before. I’m so pleased to welcome back Josh Ellis and Colet Williams. Welcome to the show, guys.
COLET WILLIAMS
Hi there!
JOSH ELLIS
Thanks for having us.
GABE GOTAY
Before we get started, why don’t you guys go ahead and reintroduce yourselves to the audience and tell them a little bit about your roles at PPAI?
COLET WILLIAMS
Well, I’ll jump in first. I’m Colet Williams. I’m the digital media manager at PPAI, so I touch all things digital media; so everything from social, to our latest website build, and beyond.
JOSH ELLIS
Including podcasts! I’m Josh Ellis. I’m our publisher and editor in chief. I oversee media, editorial, research, advocacy, public relations, and I’m getting worse and worse at explaining all of it as it grows a little bit. But we got to work with Colet on the project we’ll talk about today.
GABE GOTAY
Well, and that’s a good opportunity to dive into the topic of today’s conversation. PPAI released a new podcast! Just a couple of weeks ago you guys published the first season of Voice and Force. To steal the words right off your website, the first season, “Leading PPAI 100,” spotlights companies setting the standard in business excellence, sustainability, innovation, and more. You can listen to all five episodes of the first season now, everywhere you get your podcasts. So first of all, guys, congratulations.
JOSH ELLIS
Thank you! Yeah, we saw what you were doing with Promo Perspectives, and we’re like, we need to take him down.
GABE GOTAY
Oh, competition, it is on. And that’s actually, this is one of those interviews where I brought you here just to set you up for like a big PR disaster.
COLET WILLIAMS
Good to know.
GABE GOTAY
Well, to dive in, I guess my first question: what was the inspiration behind Voice and Force, besides Promo Perspectives?
JOSH ELLIS
Oh, inspiration. Let me go back to the start. So when I got to PPAI in December 2021, we were doing a podcast. It was sort of a weekly interview show, and there’s a lot of those. There are already plenty of those in the industry. The media department had plenty of other things that we needed to upgrade, and quickly, to go along with PPAI’s new mission to be the voice and force of the industry.
And so it just made sense, because podcasts are time-consuming. To do it well takes a lot of time and effort. And so we just decided to pause that at the time. And so I have spent the better part of three years, and in conversations with Colet for a lot of that, talking about what it would sound like when we got back in.
And as I said before, you know, there are a lot of weekly interview podcasts in the industry. I don’t know about a lot, but there are some. There are two talking head podcasts. And so if something is weekly, that’s kind of the structure that it has to take, because people just don’t have the hours to devote to something that’s much more professional-sounding and purposeful. That’s what we wanted it to be, was professional-sounding and purposeful. Those are some of the first conversations that we had.
And so we started to think about, you know, other podcasts that a lot of people have listened to, whether it’s Serial or RadioLab or some of the others that are very popular outside of our industry. And a lot of it is because they just produce a show. They produce something that is not a never-ending conversation, but it has a, you know, like with any story, a beginning, middle, and end. And so I thought that was a good way to approach it in a manageable way for us, at least as we start to dip our toes back into the water on this.
GABE GOTAY
Yeah, well, and you kind of dove into some of this here, but what were some of the goals and objectives for the podcast overall, but also for this first season?
JOSH ELLIS
You know, we identified PPAI 100 as the place to start, because when we started looking at what goals of any podcast would be, goals of what we do in communications on behalf of the association is try to help members get the most out of their membership and their association with PPAI. And so PPAI 100 is a relatively new project for us. It’s only entering its third year in 2025. And when we got started, despite all of our best efforts to explain it as holistically as possible, it’s still somewhat complicated.
And so we wanted to think about it as something digestible, to really reinforce the purpose of it, and explain how to make the most of it, and how to find value for every business, not just the companies that’ll be on the list, but for, you know, the smallest of the small, one-person shop distributors, to get something out of it.
GABE GOTAY
Well, Colet, let’s talk a little bit about the structure of the first season, because, you know, he’s talking there about the value of the PPAI 100. And something I found really interesting about the first season is it’s not, it is about the value of it, and it’s not about the PPAI 100 itself. And you’ve broken it down into five episodes into all of the different factors that go into that. Can you talk about that structure a little bit?
COLET WILLIAMS
Yeah, sure. So I think when we decided how the podcast was going to be of value to our membership and how we were going to show up in the best way possible, then it was how can these individual episodes not only elevate what it is we’re doing in the industry, but how can it help people elevate what they’re doing day to day, right? So, you know, it’s easy to sit and look and flip through a magazine and see, you know, oh, okay, well, you know, these people make the list, and that’s great for them. And oh, these people made the list top 10, and that’s great for them. Oh, and they did it again this year. Wow. You know, so like, what’s the value in it for me?
So I think really when we started looking at the actual content, it was more of like, how can we tell this story of the PPAI 100, but then also how can people walk away from it with, you know, small actionable steps that they could take in their everyday to, you know, be just that much better each and every time they went out to do whatever it is they were doing and pouring into the industry.
And so we really looked at that and looked at the purpose of the list and the metrics of the list and then tried to equate that to what we thought, and, you know, through needs assessments and things like that, what people needed to hear in order to understand how they could either attain or aspire to. And so that’s really how those individual episodes came about.
JOSH ELLIS
And just as inspiration, you know, you asked about inspiration earlier, is really the PPAI 100 itself that kind of led to that. Because, the purpose of the list, it’s like, yes, we can identify 100 suppliers and 100 distributors, and rank them based on those metrics that we’ll probably dive into. But the purpose of the list is for number 100 to aspire to be number one, for number two to aspire to be number one, for number 13,146 to aspire to be number one and to learn from the company that is number one, and on down the list. Because those leading companies in the industry have a lot to teach us all. They’re doing the right things.
A theme that Colet kept coming back to in each episode is that success leaves breadcrumbs. There’s a trail you can follow to be better and expand your business and mean more in your community and to your employees and to your customers. And so the list is aspirational by design. And we wanted the podcast to reflect that.
GABE GOTAY
Well, and I love the way that you’ve built the entire season as a tool for them to learn and grow from these kinds of things. You know, you’ve got the focus of each episode, but you’ve really built a whole support structure with the breadcrumbs, because on the website, you have the page for the first season of the podcast. Yeah, has it broken down for each episode with key takeaways and next steps. And it’s just really a very helpful resource. It’s not just entertainment, which it is. It is very entertaining. I’ve listened to the whole thing twice. But you have those actionable takeaways right there.
COLET WILLIAMS
Well thanks for the analytics boost!
GABE GOTAY
Yeah, you’re welcome!
COLET WILLIAMS
You know, my background is in education. And so whenever I am looking – or Josh comes to me with – a project and I am forward-facing for the organization, for the association, I’m always thinking, like, you know, one, go back to, how is this going to provide value? Because there’s so much out there. There are so many things that people are inundated with. Like, why are they going to come and listen to us, you know, and spend that time even if it, you know, is serial and not episodic and week to week? Like, you know, time is valuable. And, like, you know, even if it’s entertainment, like, what are they getting from it besides, you know, boosting our stats or, you know, boosting the association? Like, we have to be of service to our members.
And so I think that was one of the reasons that it was really important to, you know, one, tell a story, but two, make sure that that story, like, you know, one plus one equals two, and people really could understand and see the nuance of what was happening and what was being explained. And it wasn’t just like, you know, oh, that’s a great idea, but how do I do it? You know, like, we always are sitting and listening to people on podcasts talk, and, you know, it’s like, oh, that’s great. You’re a multi-trillionaire, and, you know, I should have this great 3:00 a.m. workout routine, but, you know, how do I actually execute it? And that was really important for me for people to be able to walk away with.
What’s really great, I think, about how we mapped out the podcast is that you can, this is bite-sized, right? So you can sit and listen to it from episode one to five, or if it’s something that, you know, piques your interest, like, you’re really trying to get stronger around the digital transformation happening in your company, then you can go straight to that episode and get that information without feeling like you’ve missed something or you need to put the pieces together and you have to go back to the episode before. So I think it serves the listener in so many ways just by it being a series that’s all dropped at once and there’s the story is not interconnected in that way.
JOSH ELLIS
It’s also just bingeable. You know, five episodes, an intro episode as well that kind of explains the purpose of it all. And you could listen to it in three days of commuting, basically. And so that’s the fun of it as well, is it’s snappy and it moves along at a pretty quick clip. And we do have people that have listened to it twice, as you said.
COLET WILLIAMS
I love it, love to hear it.
JOSH ELLIS
I think that fast pace of it was part of the design too.
COLET WILLIAMS
You know, what is the longest podcast episode you’ve listened to?
JOSH ELLIS
Oh, I’ve listened to some of those Dan Carlin, like, four-hour Hardcore History episodes where you learn about Genghis Khan, and at some point along the way, I tuned out and just went about thinking about whatever was in my head. But yeah, I like podcasts.
COLET WILLIAMS
I love podcasts too, and one popped up on my feed and it was five hours, and I was like, ooh, you know, because that’s a heavy commitment. Not that I’m going to sit and listen to it for five hours, but just to be committed to that episode to get through it for a five-hour time. And I think that’s what I like. I like the word snappy, because I don’t think we have an episode over 20 minutes. I mean, you could get a HIIT workout in and listen to this.
GABE GOTAY
Yeah, well, and it is interesting to see the way that content has evolved online overall, because it comes and goes and phases. You know, there was a big period of time, I think especially recently, where more digestible, snappy content became big. But at the same time, we are seeing those six-hour podcasts or those 10-hour YouTube videos, and each one kind of serves its purpose. And I think it’s great to kind of naturally feel out where you best fit and where you can best provide value in a different format.
COLET WILLIAMS
I mean, and if the listeners want a six-hour podcast, I mean, I don’t know if I’m going to be the one that’s going to be hosting it, but…
JOSH ELLIS
I’m sure, we can edit a version together that just stitches all five episodes together.
GABE GOTAY
I – maybe – if I released one podcast a quarter, I could do a five-hour podcast. But it’s a lot of work to put together even a 30-minute podcast.
COLET WILLIAMS
Yeah, for sure.
GABE GOTAY
You know, we talked the very last time you were on the podcast, which is almost a year ago now, we talked about your experience with your social media presence and what it meant to be a leader in a certain space. And not only were you great in the Voice and Force podcast, but you also brought in a pretty good range of other industry professionals and thought leaders. Can you talk a little bit about the guests that you had on Voice and Force and kind of the value of getting those different perspectives?
COLET WILLIAMS
Sure. I think a bit of that was somewhat selfish, because one, I like to talk to people because I like to learn. I like to understand how people think and how they navigate the world. And a little bit also was Josh sitting down and suggesting some folks that could really tell this story that we were trying to tell and help the folks that were going to listen, right? And so I enjoyed, I can say, I enjoyed every conversation I had. I learned so much, and there’s so much that was left on the cutting room floor that I’m sure we’re going to repurpose.
You know, I said this in one episode, first of all, we have so many knowledgeable people in this industry that are not only knowledgeable and successful, but they are so giving of their time and their knowledge. And really, that’s kind of where the breadcrumbs thing came from, because, you know, as I was talking to everybody, I was realizing like they were just dropping these gems that, honestly, you could pay good money for at Harvard Business School.
JOSH ELLIS
I would say there’s probably more member guests than there are PPAI staffers. But if part of it is to explain the purpose and the process of PPAI 100, then you need some folks from staff. So you needed myself, you needed Alok Baht, who oversees our research. Elizabeth Wimbush is our director of sustainability and responsibility, and probably the foremost expert on the topic in the entire industry. Jessica Gibbons-Rauch oversees professional development for PPAI, so she can speak to the wins to be gained from industry certifications and education, which is a scoring category of PPAI 100. And Dawn, who was our, as we were starting to record this, she was our interim president CEO, but she was also the board chair when we pitched PPAI 100 as a project to the board, and so she could help tell that origin story.
And then some of the specific guests that you had really just have expertise in the individual categories. Danny Rosen and Brand Fuel, a leader in some of the business fundamentals. They’ve, from year one to year two, when year one they missed the list and year two they made a slight tweak to the way that their accounting is done that boosted them up because of the improvement to their industry faith score, which is based on credit for distributors. And so many other guests. But Jeremy Lott was the big one, and he got basically a full episode to talk about what has made SanMar such a standout company in the industry and number one on the list for suppliers in the first two years.
COLET WILLIAMS
Yeah, unintentional though. You know, we weren’t setting out to focus just on one organization. But again, I think just so much knowledge and so much to dive into and so much value that it was just undeniable.
JOSH ELLIS
Yeah, Jason Ortega, who was on the digital transformation committee for PPAI and oversees it at Charles River Apparel, talking about digital transformation, our innovation category. Mandy Clay from Walker Clay, they’ve done such a great job on the employee experience there that these industry experts just lend so much credibility and lessons to what we can say and put forward in a podcast.
GABE GOTAY
Well, and it’s something I’ve always really respected about what you guys put out in general is you guys really understand the purpose of media, and journalism really is what it is, because you did do a lot of work to organize and plan and put this together. But like you said, you discovered things in these interview processes, and it is kind of your job as that space, as the space that you hold in the industry, is to find and share all of this expertise and knowledge with the people, even if it’s something you don’t have yourself when you go into creating it.
COLET WILLIAMS
You know, I think it’s really important. And credit has to go to Josh. He is a journalist. He’s at its purest form. And I think having someone who is not necessarily of the industry come in and take that road, and what he’s done with PPAI media has been amazing, and it has only benefited the association, but I think the industry and how he puts things together and how he sees the landscape of that kind of thing and maps it out for us so I mean there’s a lot of credit due there.
JOSH ELLIS
Flattery will get you everywhere. Well, you know, I mean, I’ve been in the industry, but hey, I’m wearing a branded jacket for like the 17th day in a row.
COLET WILLIAMS
I mean, I think by now, you know you’re part of the industry, but I mean, you still have that, you still have that, you know.
JOSH ELLIS
Oh, sure. I had a journalism career before I got to PPAI, but the thing is, when you’re writing a story or telling a story in a podcast form, you know, you start with a general idea of what the topics you’re going to hit are, and it’s only when you start talking to sources that you fill in the gaps and understand it better. There, you know, I talk about this with my staff all the time, like, you may not know what the story is. You don’t know all of this stuff, and that’s why it’s not an op-ed column; because you don’t know it all. There are people that are closer to the situation. We’re talking about tariffs right now in so many articles. Well, there are people whose businesses are day-to-day affected by it, and they can provide more expertise and guidance than you possibly ever could.
So, you know, Colet started with a great outline for a general structure of what the show is, but there was no point in scripting anything until all the interviews were done and you knew what people were going to say. Because if you do that, then you are leaving some gold on the cutting room floor most likely. You know, you just discover so much when you talk to those experts.
GABE GOTAY
And I’m sure it’s really personally fulfilling too, to go through that process and just like, the amount of knowledge you gain. Obviously, it’s great to build this knowledge and share it for the industry, but that you gain yourself, right? Like, you know, we did an episode of Promo Perspectives that’ll come out soon on sustainability. And like you said, Elizabeth Wimbush is absolutely the leading source on that kind of information in our industry.
COLET WILLIAMS
Man, say it again louder for the people in the back. I do not think that people understand what an amazing mind she has around sustainability.
GABE GOTAY
It’s incredible.
JOSH ELLIS
But Liz is a great example though, and you heard it in all the other interviews that Colet did and did a great job with them, is the people are not only knowledgeable, but they’re passionate about these topics too. And that’s maybe that’s where the knowledge comes from, because they care about it so much that they are willing to put in the work along the way to learn. And so I think that that comes through in the episodes and in the interviews, is they care about all these things.
GABE GOTAY
Well, you know, so far we’ve been talking about the first season. I’m curious, what are the plans for the future of the podcast? Is there anything you can share with me?
JOSH ELLIS
There’s nothing we can share with you. Yeah, I mean, we dropped this one as a surprise, and that’s probably what we’re going to be doing going forward. You know, as I said at the start, these projects, a podcast that’s done well, is really time-consuming and a lot of work has to go into it and planning. We started talking about this nine months ago or something like that, Colet. So yeah.
And we’ve already, you know, I think that we’ve got a topic for season two, but we’ll let it be a surprise when it comes out. And then I think further down the road, we’ll be looking at other concepts for shows. Voice and Force is, you know, really, I had hoped that it would become, and still do, a podcast network. So that as you open up the feed, you’re seeing season one, Leading PPAI 100, but down the road, you may have a different show. You might have that weekly interview show or a weekly show of a different kind. You know, I think that at some point it’ll make sense for us to look at branching out into a buyer-facing show that tells the story of why promotional products work, or merch matters, or, you know, gives case studies of excellent campaigns that Fortune 500 businesses did that advanced their brands. So, you know, it’s a medium that people like and they consume. And so this is really just the beginning and dipping our toe in the water. And Colet did such a great job with season one that I’m eager to work with her on season two going forward.
GABE GOTAY
Well, I can’t wait to see. Colette, is there anything you’re excited about moving forward?
COLET WILLIAMS
No, you know, I love the podcast medium. I think I’m excited about diving into more seasons and exploring that, you know, in a creative way. But also, you know, I do think anything that we do is going to be driven by the needs of our members and the feedback from our listeners. And, you know, just again, going back to that, providing value, you know, and trying to drop some of our own bread crumbs, you know, for the people. So yeah, no, I’m excited to dive back in and to talk to folks and, you know, to start creating. So I can’t wait to start working on season two.
GABE GOTAY
I can’t wait to listen to it. All right, well, let’s move on to next steps for everybody. Obviously, first step is everybody needs to go listen and subscribe to Voice and Force. Like they said, you can listen to it in order, you can listen to it out of order, you can revisit specific topics. It is a really phenomenal resource for anybody in the industry. You know, something Josh that you’ve said on the podcast before, and I’m going to say it before you get to on this episode, the rising tide raises all ships, and this project is a big part of that philosophy. So make sure you all go and listen and subscribe. Josh and Colet, anything else going on that you would like to kind of talk about and plug while we’re here?
JOSH ELLIS
Yeah, I think while this episode is dropping, we still have, you know, PPAI 100 surveys. Those are open, as Colet talks about in the podcast, not just for the companies that really expect to vie for a spot on the lists, but it’s meant to benefit everybody. We create benchmarking research that companies of all sizes can benefit from. So take those surveys no matter how big or small your company is. Three of them on innovation, responsibility, and business fundamentals. And then get ready to sign up for North American Leadership Conference in May, where we’ll do the big unveiling of the 2025 PPAI 100.
COLET WILLIAMS
So you can go to ppai.org/events and see all there is to see about NALC and get registered over there. And then I would say follow us, of course, on all the socials, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, wherever you’re hanging out.
JOSH ELLIS
All of them.
GABE GOTAY
Well, thank you guys so much for returning to the show. It’s been really great to, you know, have you guys on before and now and get to know you guys over the last year. It’s been an absolute pleasure. So thank you.
COLET WILLIAMS
Thank you, thanks for having us Gabe.
JOSH ELLIS
Anytime.