GABE GOTAY
Hi, I’m Gabe Gotay, Senior Marketing Coordinator at SAGE. Welcome to this very special bonus episode of Promo Perspectives, the SAGE podcast dedicated to giving promotional products suppliers and distributors tips and tricks on how to grow their businesses and insights into the industry at large.
A few weeks ago, I was lucky enough to get to sit down with Josh Ellis from PPAI and Dana Porter from here at SAGE and talk about PPAI’s Government Relations and Action Committee. The committee has volunteers from all over the industry and their goal is to help present your interests and the interest of the industry at large with both federal and local governments.
In that conversation, Josh was telling us about how GRAC recently started working with a new lobbying firm to help better represent our interests on Capitol Hill specifically by having a full-time representative up there. They started working with Thorn Run Partners, and I was lucky enough to get sit down with one of the founders of Thorn Run, Chris Lamond, and talk a little bit about lobbying, how it’s done, and what the immediate priorities and interests for our industry are up there on Capitol Hill.
To kick off our conversation, I asked Chris to introduce himself and tell us a little bit about his firm.
Chris Lamond
Sure. So, Thorn Run Partners was founded in 2010 by myself and a partner of mine named Andy Rosenberg. I worked for a senator from Tennessee named Fred Thompson on the Republican side of the aisle, and he worked for Senator Ted Kennedy, a Democrat.
We founded Thorn Run with the idea that we could create a boutique government relations firm that worked on client issues in a maybe a different way than perhaps might have been traditionally done in Washington, right? We knew, even back then, that bipartisan ship was paramount in client representation. You needed to have someone on both sides of the aisle to be able to understand how to present issues to different audiences, both in the Republican and Democratic side.
And we also wanted to combine that ability to reach into different offices with some expertise in in areas. So, we’ve got a firm that has grown considerably since 2010. We’re now ranked number seven in the city in terms of revenue for lobbying firms. We’ve got about 53 individuals, about 26 Partners that have joined us since then, and we’ve grown through different verticals where government has been perhaps more active. So, a lot of healthcare representation, a lot of financial services representation, and a lot of Association work. So, we’ve got a large number of associations that we represent, very similar to the organizational structure of PPAI.
GABE GOTAY
Like many of you, I really didn’t know how lobbying worked. I’d heard of it before but didn’t know the mechanics of it. So, I asked Chris to explain a little bit about the history of lobbying and how it’s done today.
CHRIS LAMOND
Yeah, lobbying used to be about the law, right? Used to, you used to require a law degree, someone who was able to read and write statutes or legislative texts that would require that legal background. It evolved over the years into being less about the law and more about the process.
Understanding the process is critical to everything about our job, and I think we can relate it to a lot of what will be happening this year for especially as it relates to what PPAI’s top legislative priorities are as we look at the reconciliation process that Congress will undertake. But lobbying was, you know, has changed a little bit because it’s no longer just about access. It’s no longer just about the law. It’s more about expertise in that process, right? So, if you understand how things actually get done, you can help navigate your client interests much more effectively.
So, while certainly access is is important still, with all of the changes that Congress has undertaken in the lobbying industry, all of which are very positive things like sunlight, you know, registration for your clients, what issues you’re working on, all those have really been positive changes for the lobbying industry because what the result has been, even though we may have friends who are members of Congress or Senators, they won’t do anything just because we’re friends with them.
We have to present an effective, important case as to why they should be supportive of a position, uh, what this impact would have on their state or district. Uh, so a much more sophisticated effort, um, and and a much more positive, um, um, change has taken place over lobbying since the last 15 years because of that sunshine, because of that, uh, regulatory, uh, oversight over the industry, which is has been really good, um, and uh, and important in which how we represent our clients.
But used to be dominated by lobbyists, excuse me, lawyers used to dominate the lobbying industry. Now it’s all congressional staff primarily. So, you know, if you’ve worked there for five or six years, you got a really good, uh, not only network but a real clear understanding of the process of how organizations get ideas introduced and then passed into law.
GABE GOTAY
Next, I had him tell me more about why Thorn Run was such a good fit for our industry and what some of the immediate priorities were when working to represent us up in Capitol Hill. He also mentioned how that can change with the incoming presidential administration and how with that incoming administration the primary focus is going to be tariffs.
CHRIS LAMOND
Yeah, I think I think the work that our firm has done for similar, uh, uh, sized associations and and breadth of issues, um, is is is how we were selected, uh, by PPAI, plus our bipartisan reach and and maybe some expertise in some of these trade and tax issues that will certainly dominate issues, uh, in the coming year.
You know, we take the direction of, um, of the legislative priorities from leadership at PPAI, and GRAC certainly has a large role in in establishing those priorities, uh, to making sure that we are providing that, frankly, return on the investment that the association is making in a in a DC-based government relations firm, right?
So, our team, it’s not just me, but we’ve got a team of individuals that are always tracking, uh, Congressional hearings, uh, Congressional rulemakings, um, Administration actions as well as Congressional activity in terms of bill introductions and the like to make sure that, um, you know, we hear about these issues first, um, and that we are able to identify an effective, uh, government relations strategy that we develop, manage, and implement in partnership, uh, with PPAI’s leadership.
So, um, you know, GRAC has a large and important role in in in in developing those priorities, and we’ve already kind of started looking at, you know, what the new administration and the new Congress, uh, with this Unified Government post-election will prioritize, and I think it, you know, it, it it’s very different than, um, that when we first started talking about what legislative issues might be on the radar screen before the election, um, you know, given the recent administration’s laser focus on on trade and tariffs, um, you know, that’s going to be absolutely front and center for for us in in 2025 and 2026.
We are anticipating, um, aggressive executive orders and maybe even legislative action in Congress that would establish, um, significant tariffs perhaps across the board. You know, we, we, we do know that some of these, uh, you know, the rhetoric around tariffs is, um, you know, part of it a negotiating ploy by the administration, but part of it’s real. I mean, it’s going to, it’s going to impact, um, almost every industry, and I think that’s the most important point that we can probably get into is, you know, when you talk about tariffs, um, we just have to look at the first Trump administration, um, to as to how aggressive they were with certain countries industry wide beyond picking certain industries that were – maybe the automobile industry was targeted by the first administration – this time around it looks like it’s going to be almost every industry.
Folks in Congress are already trying to understand how much a blanket 10% tariff would cost or a blanket 20% tariff would cost in terms of raising revenue for the Treasury Department. They’re also considering what retaliatory tariffs would look like and what impact that would have from other countries. For example, if the United States imposes a tariff on, say, China, what’s their response going to be? How aggressive would those countries be in retaliation?
All of these issues at play are going to be things that we have to keep our eye on because what we do know is that whether they’re negotiating tactics or not by the administration, it appears that the cadence of events will be executive orders early out of the gate, potentially followed by legislative action around those tariffs through congressional action.
So, I think if there is a top legislative priority for PPAI, that has to be it. I think right now, given the headwinds we will face, we are in the same boat as many other industries. I know from working with our other clients and talking with the folks at PPAI, we will work to try to lessen the impacts of those tariffs and potentially try to get exclusions applied to the industry.
We do that by talking about the economic impact our industry has on the U.S. economy. We’ve already written leadership of the House and Senate to talk about that impact to kind of lay a marker down with Congress and the administration so that they know the vast economic positive stories that we provide to Main Street America.
This work is not just happening now. I mean, PPAI has been involved in government relations for a number of years, so I know that – whether it’s the LEAD events in Washington – the foundation has already been laid. I know there’s been some congressional champion development already occurring previous to our starting with PPAI. So, there should be a good baseline of understanding about the industry about those positive impacts.
But I use the term headwinds, I think it’s a pretty good word to use in this case because I think given what the administration’s focus is going to be and Congress is really kind of giving the administration a long leash on this, I think we can anticipate some aggressive immediate action post-inauguration.
GABE GOTAY
We talked about tariffs on my last episode with Josh and Dana too, and we talked a little bit there about what an actual solution might look like for the promotional products industry regarding tariffs. Knowing that tariffs were going to be the major focus issue, I asked him what an actual solution looked like. Was it a carve out for our industry, and how soon could we expect that kind of solution to be implemented?
CHRIS LAMOND
That’s the right question to ask. I’m unable to really predict what our ask is going to be to the administration. I think we’ve got to really see what the executive orders and legislative activity will look like. I think it starts with being excluded. That’s a really high bar to jump over. It’s going to be really difficult for one industry, regardless of the industry, to secure.
But maybe there’s things around the edges of of what Congress will do in response to the administration’s actions on tariffs that that maybe we can provide some relief, uh, or Congress can provide some relief, uh, to the industry to help what will be a hard landing come January 21st when, you know, perhaps these executive orders start.
We have a good story to tell, uh, we have the opportunity to showcase that economic impact that we have, the employment numbers that we enjoy, and and you know, it’s it’s just going to be up to us to really tell that story and to get members of Congress to engage on our behalf.
And you know I think we’ll have to adjust our strategy a bit depending on how the administration’s response is to a lot of industries you know. And you think about, I use the term “industries,” but it’s you know everybody from beer and wine importers to semiconductor importers to automobile manufacturers. I mean everybody is going to be impacted I I believe on these blanket tariffs.
Now, they may adjust the administration may adjust and remove tariffs from certain countries throughout the course of their administration. I think perhaps that is is where we might be able to see relief I mean it’s going to be really difficult to get relief from products that are that are manufactured in China and shipped over. I mean that is the singular – well that is a top focus of this administration – is onshoring manufacturing onshoring production onshoring every type of industry that is partnering with with with Chinese Imports now. The goal of these imports is to bring that on shore.
To the extent we can demonstrate that we are doing that, or even we can’t do that because these products aren’t available in the United States, that’s going to lead our discussion points with the hill. We just, you know, if these products aren’t available in the United States we’ve got to go overseas. And the hope is that we can go to countries other than China but sometimes it’s inevitable.
That’s part of our story too is right, we want – businesses want – certainty, and it’s a very high level of uncertainty right now as to the first moves the Trump Administration will make. I think we’re hoping that we, you know, our message is getting through that we anticipate blanket tariffs on on almost every country in Asia, if not broader than that, in the first days of the Trump Administration. You just have to look at the campaign rhetoric that the president-elect used to talk about his goals around these these areas.
But it’s pretty clear what they want to do, what they intend to do, and you know it’s going to be it’s going to be very difficult to receive relief. But it’s incumbent upon the industry to try and to work with Congressional leaders who will have a have a role in this for sure to mitigate the negative impacts that these tariffs will have on industry for sure.
GABE GOTAY
Thorn Run is based in DC, and they primarily focus on federal government relations, but I was curious about what they do to help us with local governments.
CHRIS LAMOND
Yeah, I think that’s the key, is to get involved. Our role on the state side and maybe even local is to just identify when a state or local jurisdiction is getting involved in these issues by passing uh state state laws or regulations in their state that impact the industry. Our reach is focused directly on the federal government, and congress, and the administration, so we don’t have offices in each state capital to be able to impact legislation the states.
But we do have partnerships with local lobbying shops where we’ve passed on references or helped clients engage on the state level with some of those partnerships. So our role initially is just to identify the threats or opportunities if you have have them and then work with clients to be able to kind of identify local partners to engage, because state lobbying is a little bit different than federal lobbying.
There’s … you I talked in the beginning of this discussion about um how Federal Federal lobbying is less about relationships and more about process and expertise. It’s very different in the state side the state side is more about relationships, so you’ve got to have those kind of long-standing local relationships with your state legislature to be able to be impactful. That’s something you can’t do unless you’re in that state for a number of years
GABE GOTAY
When Chris earlier told us about how lobbying worked, he was saying that it wasn’t so much a “buddy-buddy, who do you know” kind of thing up on Capitol Hill. It involved being more knowledgeable about the law and how to impact its changes. But on the local level, I asked him if the smaller the government, the more relationship-based the mechanics of it tended to be.
CHRIS LAMOND
Yeah, absolutely. We’ve got folks in our shop that do a lot of work in a couple of cities in Oregon. That, you know, the City of Portland is very aggressive. We do some work with the D.C. City Council. Those opportunities are almost exclusively relationship-based on, you know, being able to open a door to get your message delivered in a respectful way, you know, with credibility. And that’s, you know, if you don’t have the credible experience with an office, it’s really hard to get your message delivered.
So that’s what we work on is building those relationships, establishing our own credibility to make sure that we’re bringing issues to their offices that are important to them and ones they should be caring about because, you know, a local industry or a local employer cares about an issue.
GABE GOTAY
With that in mind, I wanted to know if he thought it was worth it for distributors and suppliers to make the effort to get more involved on the local level, if for no other reason than to start learning the mechanics of government and how it impacts their businesses.
CHRIS LAMOND
Absolutely. I think the barrier to entry is so low on the local level and state level. It just takes a phone call to introduce yourself to a local Council person or your state representative and your state legislature, very differently than the federal Congress. If you look at a senator’s office, the Senators on average have 30 to 50 staffers that work for them, here in Washington or in the state, members of Congress probably have seven or eight staffers that work in their Congressional office.
State representatives usually have zero staff, so you can actually build a relationship with that member on a one-on-one basis and not having to go through staff. So, you know, attending Town Halls, writing letters, or just even calling into your local state representative or state senator in your state capital is a great way to get involved in the process.
And you know, the best part about that process is if you are involved, you do get engaged, a lot of the times those members elevate to the federal side. So if you if you’re able to build a relationship with your local representative, have them, you know, over to your facility, introduce them to your employees
That member, they’re always looking for the next opportunity that individual may be a your next Congress person or your next Senator. So, uh, you know, building those long-term relationships is critical. The same way it is here in the federal government. So, you know, with LEAD and having an aggressive, large, uh, representation of the industry come to town on an annual basis, talking about your local impact is critical for the association to be able to, you know, punch above your weight, if you will, you know, demonstrate those economic issues that are important to them, and show that why they need to support the association. All of those issues are are part of a sophisticated government relations strategy, and critical to become effective.
Yeah, and maybe if I leave you with one thought, I think it is critical that members of PPAI get engaged, remain engaged in the process, and participate in LEAD, participate when the call to action comes out to write a letter, uh, or call a congressional office, especially this year.
You know, I don’t want to be the bearer of too many bad thoughts, but you know, the the headwinds are real. Uh, tariffs are coming, tax changes are going to be under consideration by the U.S. Congress this cycle, a lot of a lot of changes could be coming.
This Administration is going to be aggressive, and we have to have a, you know, I’ve mentioned this phrase in the past, a sophisticated government relations strategy to respond to that threat. And that’s kind of how I view it, and I think the membership should view it that same way. This is a threat, and one you should be paying attention to.
Our hopes of getting relief, immediately, are low. I mean, I think we’ve got to really have strong engagement from the membership. We have to, you know, have a lot of multiple individuals telling our story to their their representatives and Senators, uh, and do the best we can to try to deliver that economic message to an audience that is going to want to, um, give the president a lot of room room, early on in the administration, uh, on these on these tariffs that are coming.
And also, you know, tariffs are important, but there’s going to be a lot of changes in, you know, Consumer Product Safety Commission. There’s going to be a number of other issues that, uh, that we track for the, uh, for the membership of PPAI that are going to be impactful as well.
So while we are, you know, very focused on on tariffs and and tax to to a lesser extent, but, um, there a lot of other areas of of interest and maybe concern that our membership needs to pay attention to as it relates to an Administration change, Congressional change, that the idea that there’s a a mandate from, um, from one party to make changes.
We didn’t touch on this much, but you’ve got the Elon Musk, Ramaswami effort of Doge to be more efficient, you know, we’ve already been called out by Senator Ernst, as way to become, um, a way the government can become more efficient.
So those are other areas that we will be certainly targeting, um, in the early days of 2025.
GABE GOTAY
We were so grateful to get to have Chris on the show. It was really good to get his insights and learn a little bit more about how this worked, but obviously we couldn’t cover everything government relations related in a 30-minute call. So if you’re going to be attending the PPAI Expo later this month, there’s going to be some opportunity for you to hear from Chris again and learn a little bit more.
CHRIS LAMOND
Yeah, so, Monday, I believe it’s at 2:30, uh, January 13th, I want to say, I’ll be giving a discussion along with Josh Ellis about the work that we’re doing for the association, talk specifically about all the things we’ve talked about today, and be available to answer questions from membership directly on on what we are doing, how they can help, and then other questions may have.
GABE GOTAY
Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of the podcast. Looking forward to seeing all of you guys in Las Vegas. I know that I’m going to be up there. I’m going to try to catch Chris’s presentation, get to meet him in person, I highly encourage you to do the same. And if you’re there and you see me and you listen to the show, please come up and say hi. I’d love to get your thoughts. Thank you so much, and we’ll see you in Vegas.”