GABE GOTAY
Hello everyone and welcome to this bonus episode of Promo Perspectives. Tagging on to the episode we just did about the greatest companies to work for, where we had Josh Ellis from PPAI tell us about that list, what goes into it, and what makes a great company. Today, I am joined by Amanda Carpenter, a fellow co-worker here at SAGE. We’re going to talk a little bit more about company culture.
Hi Amanda.
AMANDA CARPENTER
Hey Gabe. Thanks for having me.
GABE GOTAY
Thanks for joining us. Why don’t you tell the audience a little bit about yourself and your role at SAGE?
AMANDA CARPENTER
Yeah, so I just recently transitioned into a new role here at SAGE. I have been with the company a little bit over 10 years. Started on the sales side, and then there was an opportunity for growth. And so now I am the Senior Customer Experience Manager here at SAGE, which has been a lot of fun testing me in new ways and challenging me, which I think is so great. Which makes me want to stay with the company even longer because I can keep progressing professionally.
GABE GOTAY
Right off the bat, that kind of dives us into the main conversation here, which is everybody’s going to have something different that they’re looking for in a company culture. It could be pay, benefits, flexibility, mobility. For you, it sounds like it was the mobility that they gave you to be able to continue to grow.
AMANDA CARPENTER
Yeah, I think for me, I love the company so much. And so there are so many pieces where, when you’ve been doing something for so long, there’s a lot of people who want to keep doing that for their entire life. And that’s great. They have that passion for it. I loved what I did before, but there were some different pieces where I wanted to continue to grow. And I didn’t know how to do that in the sales kind of piece of it. So to be able to be given an opportunity to try something different and to stay at a company that I absolutely love makes it just a win-win on both sides.
GABE GOTAY
Well, and clearly, to be given that opportunity to grow into this new role, they recognized your aptitude and your talent. And is that something you felt like, as you were in sales even before the talk of the new role, that you felt recognized for your work?
AMANDA CARPENTER
You know, I always felt recognized with that. I don’t necessarily know that I thought that I would get promoted into a different role. I’ve always been, in my opinion, very insecure with my performance. So there are times where I think you can come across and you think you have all of this confidence. And I do have confidence, but then there’s always these things in the back of my brain where it’s like, “Am I doing what I need to do?” Now, I had leadership and management who would give the “hey,” feedback, “If you’re doing great with this, but let’s improve with this.” And those kind of pieces, which I think is another factor where it starts with leadership, right? And if you have the right leadership in place, they’re going to help cultivate people that want to stay because they’re also helping you develop your skills. So if you’re not doing great at the beginning, you have the tools and resources to improve if you have that available to you.
GABE GOTAY
So you’ve been with SAGE for how long again?
AMANDA CARPENTER
A little over 10 years.
GABE GOTAY
So a lot can change in a company in 10 years. Is there any particular way that you’ve noticed that not just the company itself but its culture has changed in the time that you’ve been here?
AMANDA CARPENTER
I don’t know if per se it’s changed or maybe I just wasn’t as aware of it. But really, I feel like our voices are heard and our voices matter here. I think we’ve always had a voice, and I think things were important. But seeing things instantly, of having, you know, surveys of, “What are we doing well? What can we improve?” And then seeing it implemented pretty quickly, I think is really cool to be able to see because you’re having those like stats, right, where it’s like, “Hey, these are the things that people find important. How can we try to get there?” Or maybe there are some things that just aren’t achievable with that. But I think we were always changing with different areas. But I think there’s those pieces of putting more focus and kind of realizing it as I was more… what’s the best thing to say?
Um, for people that don’t know me, some people will say that I’m kind of like there, but I’m like, “I’m very shy. I’m very kind of reserved with things.” So as I started to get more comfortable in my skin within the company I think there are also the pieces where, then, I saw more components because I was also having more conversations with different departments, and not just our department. And so I think there’s those different pieces too, where, as you expand yourself, I think you kind of see more things when you kind of venture out of just your comfort zone.
GABE GOTAY
The ability to work between departments and have all that communication… You’ve obviously been here since before SAGE went remote. Did you notice any particular changes in the way that you had to work with everybody or the culture when you started working remotely?
AMANDA CARPENTER
Yeah, I think you definitely have to do more of a job of kind of staying on top of what are those communication methods if you’re not going into the office. Is that setting up Zoom meetings? Is it doing more phone calls? So what are those things that you have to adapt to because now you’re not just in office where I can’t just walk over to somebody’s office and say, “Hey, I have a quick question for you.” You know, you have to either send a chat or find those different ways of communicating because, it is different when you’re not physically in person. I think there are benefits to both.
I find myself loving being remote, but also missing that human aspect. And I think that’s also because the company did such a good job with the culture of doing events, encouraging you know, take a break and go to the pool table or our break room is big enough to sit there and have lunch and talk to different people. And so I think you look at those pieces where, how do you still make that an effort? And for me now, it’s kind of taking a reality check of saying, “I can still have that. I just need to go up to the office because we are hybrid.”
So you can still have those interactions. But if it’s working with different departments, which for me now I work with a lot of different departments, and trying to communicate, what are those different avenues versus just walking over to an office and doing that. Of really doing more verbal and kind of making sure of tracking things and staying organized with that as well, I think is a little bit different.
GABE GOTAY
Well, and so obviously communication skills, verbal, are really important when you’re in a sales role in general. But I think it improves the quality of life a lot of things we got to do because there’s a lot of trade shows involved on our end of things. And when you’re going to be traveling and spending a lot of time with your co-workers with people like that, the culture that’s fostered beforehand is absolutely going to change that experience.
AMANDA CARPENTER
Yeah, and that actually is a great point. I think the trade shows and traveling together was one of my favorite parts. And that also gave me the ability to cultivate some of those relationships and now friendships. There are so many people within the company. It’s not just a coworker. I call them my friend. I have met people that have left the company, and we are still very close. So I think that’s also something to say about how you travel, what is kind of the setting of the work, and then the travel components with that as well. So I think that’s also definitely fun. You see a different side of people versus just that professional in-office. You have the professional at trade shows, but then you’re having meals with each other. You’re, you know, if you’re doing registration or you’re standing at a booth and you don’t have a customer, you’re getting to know each other on a different and a different level because you’re outside of the office. And I think there’s a different comfort level, in my opinion.
GABE GOTAY
When you really see some of how long these relationships have been developing when you go on those shows. Even like intra-company wise, uh, I’m relatively new to SAGE and I’ve only been here for a little under two years so far. But going to these trade shows, um, and seeing, you know, people’s interactions with other folks from PPAI or even just distributors and suppliers that are on the showroom floor, these are those aren’t even coworkers, but these are people that clearly relationships have formed over the years, uh, and it’s, it’s very impressive.
AMANDA CARPENTER
Yeah, and I’ll, um, actually give an example. I was actually talking to Matt, who’s one of our sales reps on the distributor side. And he has made just an impact within the industry as well. Where when I’ve been at a trade show and they’re like, “Hey, is Matt at this show?” So it’s, you also see how different people, exactly what you’re saying, the interactions where it’s not just within the company. Our industry, I also feel like really does a good job on nurturing those relationships, um, across the board, from whether it’s a client or, you know, a different relationship.
And so it’s fun to see suppliers where you haven’t seen them necessarily all the time, but you’ve seen them year after year after year. So it’s like you’re just picking up right where you left off at any of those trade shows, um, when you have been seeing each other for, you know, whether it’s 2 years or 20 years. I think depending on kind of what you communicate and what you kind of put into it, you can definitely cultivate those relationships a little bit more too.
GABE GOTAY
Absolutely. Yeah, something that I talked about with Josh a little bit in the main episode was the impact that the size of an organization has on its ability to foster culture. Earlier, you had mentioned that at SAGE, it’s great that you feel heard and responded to. They send out surveys, and even me with my limited time here, I’ve seen that as well. Um, like when I came to SAGE, one of the biggest things for me was the flexibility of having a very generous hybrid schedule, um, and they put out a survey shortly after I started, uh, about how people felt about that. Would people be interested in returning to the office? And this was kind of during the first wave of a lot of companies were sending people back. And I think the response from the staff was that most of us didn’t want to return to the office. And they heard that. Like we’re moving offices now to a smaller office that could not contain us all. So they’re really committing to that.
So all this just to say that I think that’s only possible because of the size of SAGE. And we’re kind of at the high end of a small business. And a lot of these companies that you’re running into at trade shows on the distributor and supplier side, are, you can be tiny. Can be just a couple of people to maybe a couple of dozen people. Have you, through your interactions with some of those folks at those companies, noticed any kind of company culture challenge or successes that come with being in such a small organization?
AMANDA CARPENTER
I think from what Josh said too, of from the pieces of when somebody’s out and you’re in a small organization, you have to pick up that slack of the different pieces versus if you have an organization that has, let’s say, 300 people, that’s a little bit easier. But on the flip side of that, if you have 300 people, it’s a little bit harder, in my opinion, to hear some of those voices. And at my last company, I’ve only had two jobs since I’ve been out of college. And the first company I was at was a big staffing company. And I, I don’t feel like you had a voice because it was all over the country. They had different offices. And so how do you really compile and make okay, if you have an office in Colorado and you have an office here, but everybody kind of has different viewpoints on it.
So with that kind of same thing within our industry, if you have, you know, hundreds of employees, and a lot of times for suppliers, you have sales reps who are going to be within each one of those regions. I think that can be a little bit harder too, of how do you hear all the voices? And what may be important to somebody, let’s say on the East Coast, might not necessarily be the same thing to someone in the South. And the reason why I say that is because, you know, in the East Coast, when you’re trying to go a block or a mile, traffic is way different than if you’re here in Dallas. And so those kind of different pieces, when if you’re thinking about a comparison with commute, you’re going to have two completely different responses. So in my opinion, I like working in the smaller companies for that piece of feeling like you’re not just a number. You’re here, you’re valued, you’re heard. And you know, I’m sure there are some great companies that are larger that do a great job of hearing people and can make those changes. I’ve lucked out where I haven’t had to work at lots of different companies. So I’m just not exposed to it. But I think you do hear from people, the larger the company, the harder it is to be heard because you’re a smaller, a smaller number.
GABE GOTAY
I feel like, and I’m from that new-fangled generation where I’ve had more jobs than I can count on one hand in my 20s, uh, and I do, I’ve also seen a lot of that same span of, you know, I’ve worked for a couple of relatively large corporations. And let alone being heard by your immediate management or the people that you’re working with, there’s this nebulous “corporate,” right? And it’s just like, it’s almost like a scary bad word of this big brother kind of corporate, “Won’t let us do that,” or “Corporate’s not happy about this.” And it’s such a disconnect. It makes you feel like just a cog in the machine, um, versus here, you know, I’ve, I’ve run into the president and CEO of a company I work for in the hallway. And they have things to say about work that I’ve done, um, and you just don’t get that in a big company.
Now, on the flip side, I’ve also worked for some very small businesses. Like I, I was functionally the rest of the business besides the person who owned it. And there are challenges that can come with that too, especially if it’s a negative company culture and it’s a business owner who is a “my way or the highway” kind of temperamental, and you don’t have a lot of other support structures. Versus at least in a big corporation, you have some pillars of like HR and corporate responsibility in place to protect you from things like that. Um, it can make a big difference.
AMANDA CARPENTER
100%. And I think you hit the nail on the head there. Like the negativity piece, right? Where if you’re somewhere where, where all you’re hearing are the negative pieces or you’re not doing things, what’s going to make you want to go to work? And so for you, of like what you said, when you’re at the office and you have the president who recognizes work that you’re doing, it’s not necessarily, in my opinion, it’s not necessarily just about the money. It’s about being valued as an employee and as a person and saying, “Hey, I am doing good work.” At least for me, I know a lot of things, yes, money is nice and money is a big driver for a lot of people. I like to make, make good money too. But I also like to feel valued. I would rather, in my opinion, stay at a company, make a little bit less, and feel like I am making a difference and what I am doing, people value, than go to another company and make, I don’t know, twice as much and be told, no matter what I’m doing isn’t good, or, you know, “You’re just on the grind all the time.”
And so I think here, work is important, but work-life balance is also important. And you know, they also put a lot of importance on family events and getting your family involved with different things throughout the year and things like that. So I think that’s a big picture too, is when you’re kind of thinking about what makes you want to work at a company, it’s different for everybody. I have friends that have hopped around and been at 10 companies. It’s never really been my thing. But it’s also been, I’ve found an opportunity and I kind of got into that spot. And I’ve lucked out where it has been a great company and they’ve had pillars and values that resonate with me, which doesn’t make me want to look for another opportunity. But other people have different things that are important for them. And sometimes that’s what makes them want to keep looking for the next best thing. And the next best thing is not always out there.
GABE GOTAY
No, and it, it is very hard. I mean, I remember when in my last role, I was particularly unhappy with the company culture. It was why I was looking to leave. And it is hard to find a job. And it, it’s, it’s a lot of work to find a job. So having really competitive offerings like flexibility and good pay goes a long way. Now, what you talked about with the values of what people are looking for in a job, it kind of was also making me think, we didn’t really talk about this much with Josh, but company culture is a reciprocal thing. It is not just what do the leaders do from the top down. It is how do the staff respond from the bottom up. Sounds weird, but, uh, to, to that, and what kind of culture does that foster? So you talk about like, “Is it just about the money?” No, money is great. I, I’m definitely, you know, requires bills. We want to be comfortable. We want to know our future secure, uh, but for me, that’s about what it is with the money. It’s about being secure and being happy, what I do. And there’s nothing wrong with your values being seeking the most money. But you mentioned like organizations where it’s just there to grind and make as much money as you can, and nothing you ever do is enough. Not only is that negative coming from the top down, but I think the kind of people that are going to thrive in that negative environment are going to, from the bottom up, create a whole other negative place that you don’t want to be in. You don’t want to be around those people.
AMANDA CARPETNER
Yeah, I agree with you
GABE GOTAY
Uh, like I, I think in my, and again, I’ve just had so many for it’s ridiculous, uh, I did in my late teens. I briefly worked in car sales, which is not something I would ever recommend anybody do for countless moral reasons, let alone anything else. But I worked for a really small and independently owned thing, and their culture was fine. But that kind of sales, it can create an environment among your coworkers that is just, you know, “toxic” is a word that gets thrown around a lot. But it can just make it miserable to be in. Um, and you know, in that case, I was lucky enough that I got rescued by another opportunity. But if I hadn’t had that opportunity, I might have been stuck working in that kind of thing. And not only is that bad for your work-life balance, but it can be detrimental to your mental health to have to be around that every day.
AMANDA CARPENTER
Yeah, that all ties together, right? I mean, what you’re doing day-to-day, if you’re in a negative environment all the time, in my opinion, that negativity is going to also kind of funnel into your personal life. And then how does that affect your, your personal relationships with that piece as well? And I’m not saying I’m always a positive person. I am, I’m hard on myself. But that’s because I’m a perfectionist. But I would much rather look at the glass half full and what the positive pieces are from whatever it is. Even if you’re looking at a company aspect with culture of, okay, well, you don’t have, let’s say, these three things, but what three things do you have?
And that piece where you have a lot of people who, instead of looking at what you do have, are just looking at the negative component. And I think that goes with when you are just in a negative kind of repetition all the time, it’s hard to get, it’s hard to get out of that cycle. And I think one of the things I loved when I was on the sales side was, you win individually, but we are always rooting each other on as a team. Because when you win individually and you’re working together as a team, that’s even a bigger, a bigger success and a bigger positivity piece of when you hit your goals together as a team, you’re like, “We all did this together.” And the support that you have with those different aspects too.
And I think that is important too. What kind of support do you have? Do you have support from your team? Do you have support from other people? If you don’t have that, I think that’s another driving factor of, it makes your job a lot, a lot harder if you don’t have the tools or support, whether it’s a person or, or, you know, something, whether it’s, you know, technology of having that as an option too. Giving, giving you the resources to be successful, I feel like is what I’m trying to say.
GABE GOTAY
The collaborative … it’s a result of having a collaborative environment too, which obviously I’m a huge, huge fan of the remote work, uh, trend. It’s changed my life. Like we don’t have to go… I feel like that’s all anybody talks about now when it comes to company culture. But it has been great. But it can be detrimental to the collaborative aspect. And that’s a balance too. I think SAGE has done a good job of finding it both by being, you know, we’re hybrid, but that’s it’s a really generous hybrid. Like the marketing team is maybe once I come up a little more for some of these podcasts and things like that. But in general, the whole team’s here once a month. And I know a lot of people, hybrid means like two days a week.
AMANDA CARPENTER
Yeah.
GABE GOTAY
Uh, but even with that, the ability to still have this collaborative nature, you know, I know with the sales team, you guys are really tight in it, um, and in the marketing team, even just from a creative aspect. Like we have some of the most talented creative people I’ve ever met working in this marketing department, um, like just our video producers, our graphic designers, all of these people. So like working on more of the project management side of things, um, I just, I’m excited that I get to work with these people every day and excited to see what they come up with. And I’m sure a lot of that only works because of the culture that SAGE fostered pre-remote work, which I wasn’t around for.
AMANDA CARPENTER
Yeah, I’d agree with you. And then you also just said something where, seeing how talented different people are, I feel like, I mean, we, we didn’t have a podcast before you. And so being able to see, “Hey, here’s an opportunity. I want to challenge myself.” I see other talented components within our marketing department. Everything, what can I do to also kind of add on to that? And I think this has been a great addition because we haven’t had this. And to see what you’ve done with it too, I think is really cool. And like what you said, you’ve been here for a little over 2 years. And to see you from the beginning, when I first met you at Expo, I feel like was actually the first time to, like, now you’ve come into your own too. So to be able to see those pieces too, I think just getting to know you, like the culture and kind of those pieces, you also thrive on seeing other people and kind of what they’re, what they’re doing. Because you also want to grow, um, and kind of do those pieces. And I think seeing you push yourself and kind of getting uncomfortable is fun too. Because then you’re not doing the same monotony every single day.
Sometimes you can get burned out with that too, of doing the same thing day after day. And then, like for you too, of, okay, “I’m already starting to try different things.” Really, the sky’s the limit if you come up with an idea and you just want to keep doing different things, which I think is cool. Um, that SAGE gives us the opportunity to be creative, create opportunities within, right? Where it’s not just going outside of trying to hire people of, “Hey, we need this. Let’s hire outside of,” “Hey, do we have the talent here already that somebody may potentially want to do?” Now, it’s great when we bring outside people too because you have different perspectives, which I think has also been great when you have new people come in again over the past year or two.
You see different ideas and things like that because we are adding new people, we are continuing to grow, and you have different perspectives because people are coming in. But it’s just saying like, “Hey, I see what you’re doing here. It’s great. Maybe we can improve on it a little bit with this. What about this idea?” And so I think it’s cool too, when you’re saying all the talent, because I see you as that talent too, and where you can really go with it, um, just from the beginning of what you’re already doing, I think is really cool of those different pieces too, which I think is a whole big scope of everything of why do you stay at a company? Because again, everybody has different, different things. But I think for you too, it’s cool to see you probably do want to stay longer when you have these opportunities, um, versus, like you said, in your 20s, you’ve had multiple jobs that you can count on, um, and so what’s made you want to stick here? I think it’s also, you know, kind of those pieces versus the other jobs where it’s like, “I’m just gonna, you know, move on.”
GABE GOTAY
Absolutely. I mean, you, you first of all, thank you very kind words. You nailed the script I gave you for the compliments.
AMANDA CARPENTER
I do my best!
GABE GOTAY
Uh, but it is like, just having that, like, not getting pushed back on new ideas goes a long way. Um, like at so many of places I’ve worked before, it’s, “Well, we haven’t done that, or we haven’t done it that way. And therefore, we’re not going to,” which can be really frustrating for a lot of reasons. It’s stifling to your creativity. A lot of times, the way that things are being done don’t work for certain reasons. And then when those things don’t work, it falls back on you. But you’re doing the things that you’ve been told, it’s the only way you can do. And that, that’s a vicious cycle of, of a feedback loop. So I do very much like that I have the flexibility here.
And it’s, it’s not just, again, the leadership from top down. I mean, it is that. It is Bille and Rebecca have always been great about, “You have this idea, run with it.” Now, if there, there could be things where there’s some reason where it’s like, “And that’s just not going to work. We can’t.” But for the most part, I don’t get that. And it’s not just them. It’s like Lafonso, who does all of our awesome video production stuff, or, uh, Brittany and her creative team, and Drew on the creative team, uh, I, Tori, all of them are great.
The reason I called out Drew in particular is with this podcast thing, like there’s a lot. I love the branding of this show. I love the graphics. I love the logo. I love the purple theme. I love all the background elements. I didn’t design any of those things. I just, I had an idea for the show in general. And I was like, “We need assets that match this.” And man, everybody was so enthusiastic and they made such great work.
I’m always worried about Lafonso. I feel like I tell him all the time, it’s like, “Hey, I have another idea that’s going to add work to your plate and bring you.” But he’s always so game for it, 100%. And I’m a bit of a cinema nerd too. So it’s like when Lafonso and I work on projects like this, we can get into the weeds on that kind of stuff. And it is super invigorating. Um, so yeah, I think, and that’s funny because I don’t think that even really something we talked about with Josh and company culture is, it’s not just like, “What perks do you allow?” Or “How satisfied are you?” It’s really what gets into, where does that satisfaction come from? Um, so yeah.
AMANDA CARPENTER
Yeah. And I think the, there’s so many different pieces. And I think there’s always questions of, there’s always supposed to be just a one straight line answer. And I don’t think there’s always just a straight line of what’s the right answer, what’s the wrong answer. Because again, what’s important to you is going to be different. What’s important to me in those different pieces. But it’s nice when you’re at a company, you’re loving what you’re doing, you can challenge yourself, and you feel like what you’re saying, your coworkers are also part of it. It’s not just leadership, but how do you interact within just your department, other departments, and then working your way up from there as well. And I think that is a huge component of making a great company. And again, just hearing everybody, because everybody’s voices matter, not just one. And it’s not just the same across the board, which I think is, um, interesting, but also very cool to be able to be different, right?
GABE GOTAY
Absolutely. Well, we’re going to have to wrap up here. But before, before that, is there any other thoughts you had on company culture or anything you wanted to share?
AMANDA CARPENTER
Not that I can think of. I mean, I could talk all day. I used to be in sales, so I’m, I’m good at that. Um, but no, I think it’s a great conversation. And again, just, you can just keep thinking outside the box. Don’t be close-minded. I guess, as the biggest thing when it comes to culture, kind of looking at those pieces. Everything is, uh, different for everybody. So that’s all I got.